Seymour Hersh, a Pulitzer-Prize-winning investigative journalist, uncovered the My Lai massacre during the Vietnam War, the CIA spying on American college students, torture by the CIA and U.S. military at Abu Ghraib in Iraq, and more stories officials tried to cover up.
The new Netflix documentary “Cover-Up,” directed by Mark Obenhaus and Laura Poitras, looks back at Hersh’s career, and it was a long time in the making.
About 20 years ago, when Poitras returned from making a film in Iraq during the war, she met with Hersh in hopes of making a film about him and his work.
“It was motivated by both respect for size, body of work,” Poitras said, “and a deep concern of the state of investigative journalism in this country.”
But Hersh turned down her initial ask.
“ The reason was source protection and also because he believes that his job is to get out of the way of the story, let the words speak for themselves,” Poitras said, “but I didn’t give up.”
Seymour, at the beginning of the documentary, you say you’re not sure you trust the filmmakers, and you don’t want to talk about your sources. What changed your mind about doing the film?
Seymour Hersh: “The thing about Laura, I actually had watched some of her movies and documentaries, and she gets under the skin. In other words, she’s going to want to dig in and try and figure out why I do what I do, as opposed to looking at just what I did.
“I think that’s the reason the story, the movie, has some interest because it does go beyond just the usual, ‘and then I did this, and then I did this.’ You know, I had to talk about my mommy and my daddy and all that stuff.”
Laura, you wanted to capture why Sy Hersh does what he does. What did you find?
Laura Poitras: “ I think he’s allergic to abuse of power in all forms, and he is also skeptical of power in the way I think a good investigative journalist should be.
“That’s what the film’s about. I mean, as much of it is a portrait about Sy Hersh, it’s also very much a portrait of this country over the last half century and about violence and atrocities and cover-ups and lies.
“That was the kind of balance I was trying to thread with the film, to talk about this country through the story of Sy.”
Why is it important to make sure people remember what happened in the My Lai massacre and at Abu Ghraib?
Poitras: “ I do think it’s important that we use the appropriate words to describe the facts. And I think that’s what Sy is always pushing, too. And one of the themes in the film is also how the media has failed us in some of these wars and how they’re described to the public. And I think we’re seeing that today.
“So for me, it’s much more about impunity and how if nobody’s held accountable, it sets the stage for it to happen over and over. And I think that cycle of impunity is something that, you know, the public is very aware of.”
How have you been able to cultivate leads with people willing to share information at huge risks to themselves?
Hersh: “ It has to do with their integrity. It turns out there were a lot of people in the intelligence service, in the diplomatic service, in the military, who simply reach a point.
“There was one person in particular I pursued for 10, 15 years with no luck. He was a very, very brilliant inside guy. You get to know who the really good ones are by reputation. I didn’t know him at all, but I tried to reach him and one day, about a month after [Sept. 11, 2001], when I was writing for the New Yorker, when we were lying about everything we were doing in the war against [Osama] Bin Laden, just lying like crazy.
“One of the guys I chased with no luck called me at home at 3:00 in the afternoon, and the conversation went like this. The dialogue’s out of a bad movie. He said, ‘OK, Hersh, I can’t stand the lying.’”
As you watch the news today, such as the U.S. removing Nicolás Maduro from power in Venezuela, what comes to mind for you?
Poitras: “ In the editing room and throughout making the film, the reason we made it is we think it has everything to do with today, both in terms of what the media can accomplish or when it fails, and the repetitions that we see in this country in terms of violence and impunity and lies and cover-ups and horrible regime changes and catastrophic wars, and how the press is often used to sort of cheerlead around a war.
“We are interested in those cycles, and you know, the end, which is when Calley becomes sort of a folk hero. William Calley, who was accused of murdering innocent civilians in Vietnam, becomes a folk hero in this country. I mean, this is talking about who we are as a nation. It’s a dark version of this country, but it’s, I think, very relevant to today.”
Hersh: “ I watched the news conference carefully of the president and his honchos, and I listened to the questioning, and I was amazed that there was hardly a harsh word said, there wasn’t any question saying, ‘What about the legality?’ And, ‘What makes you think you have the right to go into a country without declaring war as the Constitution requires from Congress?’
“It does say we got a long way to go, and this movie is just, if anything, as Laura said earlier, it’s about the questions that should have been asked that weren’t asked, and that aren’t being asked today, even now.”
You say the U.S. government looked the other way in response to violence in the past. When you look at the country today, is that still happening?
Hersh: “ We have a country that supports Israel in the horrible treatment — I would call it genocide any day, a hundred times a week — in Gaza. And they still talk about ‘when the Palestinians leave.’ They’ve been there. That’s their country. The Israelis still talk about ‘when they leave.’ So I don’t know what the ending they have in mind is, but it’s not the one we all think of.
“I see that coming, and I see a president that thinks it’s OK to go to war unilaterally against Iran on behalf of Israel, which has an army that’s bombed everything else. So I just see this uncontrollable, insatiable need for violence. All you can do is draw attention to it. You know, we’re citizens. We don’t have that much power, actually.”
Poitras: “ I really believe we can’t give up and we cannot capitulate to politics of despair. I think we need people to keep organizing. I think there are tipping points, and I think we need to keep exposing the truth. How can we not?”
This interview was edited for clarity.
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Julia Corcoran produced and edited this interview for broadcast with Mark Navin. Grace Griffin produced it for the web.
This article was originally published on WBUR.org.
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