Dean chats with Scavenger's Reign show creator, Joe Bennett, and executive producer Chris Prynoski, about what it takes to create an alien world from scratch.
Homework Assignment:
What are your thoughts on alien life? How will we make contact? Would we ever even recognize alien life if we saw it? Send us your thoughts at lookingup@wvxu.org or post them on social media using #lookinguppod
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Looking Up is transcribed using a combination of AI speech recognition and human editors. It may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
Dean: [00:00:00] On December 4th, 1957, Disney released a new feature called Mars and Beyond.
[Mars and Beyond]: Although scientific evidence seems to indicate that Mars is a cold, desolate world.
Dean: It was a combination of the history of astronomy and some pretty wild speculations of life on other worlds.
[Mars and Beyond]: Many scientists today speculate on what the planet might be like if conditions were somewhat different, with a little more water and oxygen than expected,
there could be an astonishing array of life on Mars. A totally different sequence of living things following its own pattern of evolution.
Dean: Now this came out two months after the Soviet Union launched the first satellite, Sputnik, and one month after the second satellite sent a dog, Laika, around the Earth. That's in Sputnik 2.
So the American space program was just getting [00:01:00] started. The first actual flyby of Mars was still eight years away. and the moon landing still more than a decade in the future. So this feature, Mars and Beyond, it was scientifically compelling and beautifully animated. It's, it's really downright trippy.
It's a look at what life on Mars could be like. It has plants that migrate.
[Mars and Beyond]: Plants that feed on other plants. Or even plants that feed on themselves.
Dean: Animals with heavy insulation to survive the bitter cold nights.
[Mars and Beyond]: Some organisms working with powerful digestive acids may be able to feed directly on minerals in the rocks.
Dean: Or some that dwell entirely underground. Creatures that kill their prey with poison gas, concentrated sunlight, or sonic waves. And even silicon based life forms that grow into tall towers in a day, only to shatter and explode each night.[00:02:00]
Man, it is a trip to watch this thing. I cannot stress enough. Check it out. Mars and beyond. It's really cool. So that's the thing is, today we don't know what alien life looks like any better than we did back in 1957. Earth is still our only model. I mean, what do we think is out there? Is there anything out there?
The mind reels with possibilities.
From the studios of Cincinnati Public Radio, I'm your host, Dean Regas, and this is Looking Up, the show that takes you deep into the cosmos or just to the telescope in your backyard to learn more about what makes this amazing universe of ours so great.
Our guests this week are the creator of Max's Scavenger's Reign, Joe Benett, and the show's executive producer, Chris Prynoski.[00:03:00]
So, in 2023, an animated series named Scavenger's Reign tried to capture the potential wonders, terrors, and alien ness of another planet. And it adds humans, and all the good, bad, and other things that that brings with it.
Alright, this might come as a little bit of a surprise, but I'm not a huge sci fi fan. I know, it's crazy, you know, with everything I do with studying space and, you know, I think the reason why I'm not a big sci fi fan is because it's, can we be honest? It hasn't been very good lately. I mean, No, it's not been very good at all.
And, and I don't know what it is. You've got all these great stunning visuals and CGI and all that stuff, so I think it's the plots. I think the plots, it's not working. And so I was so pleasantly surprised when I accidentally stumbled upon the show Scavengers Reign [00:04:00] because it's, it's this 12 episode animated series debuted in Max in 2023, and the imaginativeness of it.
The alien ness of it just blew me away. Well, let's dive in here, man. We've got Joe Benett here and Chris Prynoski from the show Scavenger's Reign. Oh man. Thank you guys so much for joining me today.
Joe: Thank you. We said, thank you at the same time. Hi, I'm Joe Benett. I'm the co creator of Scavenger's Reign.
Chris: Hi, I'm Chris Prynoski. I'm one of the EPs on Scavenger's Reign. Man, I
Dean: am so excited about this. Like, I, you know, I was telling people, I was just, I just watched the last two episodes just before coming in the studio, just to get me in the mood. I mean, Joe, where did this storyline come from?
Joe: I mean, it was kind of a slow evolution, you know, it started from making a short which I would say is very different from what the show ended up being, you know, the story arcs in the show [00:05:00] kind of came later, but the short itself, I think focused more on the planet itself.
And, you know, a lot of the stuff that you see in the show that I feel like, like the cause and effects and seeing kind of the functionality of the organisms on the planet, just how the planet operates. I mean, I was thinking a lot about like Rube Goldberg machines and just, it's a chain reaction, basically.
And it's, it's something that's supposed to be complex, but that performs a very simple task. So the short itself was sort of following this sort of Rube Goldberg machine cause and effect. And you're following these characters, basically like solve a puzzle. And then at the end of it, you sort of see what the whole point of it all was.
But I mean, there's no dialogue. In the short at all. So later when, when this became a show, we started to introduce these new characters and everything. I think what we cherry picked the most from was the planet itself. Trying to keep the nature and all those elements as the same as [00:06:00] possible.
[Sam]: So, hypothetically speaking, in our contracts, could we charge the last couple of months as overtime? I know, that's funny. But seriously.
Dean: Yeah, definitely the planet is maybe not the main character, but a main character in this. The ideas for the creatures and the landscapes, where did some of that come from?
Joe: A lot of like nature docs, I think there was a period where I was thinking about symbiotic relationships and, you know, just the idea of kind of like making up your own version of that.
You know, there was a funny thing that happened where, when we were coming up with creature designs and doing some concept work, it was almost impossible to come up with something that doesn't already exist in nature on earth. So a lot of it was just kind of like. emulating, but it, it wasn't upfront a feeling like the audience doesn't have to [00:07:00] know how this symbiotic relationship works necessarily.
It's more like the central focus is what the characters are going through and all that stuff. And, and the nature is sort of the backdrop.
[Azi]: This is Azi Nareen of the planetary freighter ship Demeter 227. I'm marooned on planet Vesta seeking rescue. Is anybody out there over?
Can you hear me?
Of course not .
Chris: Joe, one of the things you told me about the short that I didn't like perceive until you pointed it out to me There's so many of these easter egg little things in there of like the whale like creature That's like oh, it's got a lot of scars on it because they've done this a bunch of times Like, if you look closely, it's like you'll see a bunch of lines that represent they've made a bunch of attempts or maybe successes they've done.
This isn't their first time trying to do this complicated Rube Goldberg process.
Dean: Well, and [00:08:00] that process, you know, for example, is a human has to cut a slit in an alien being, climb inside of it, pull this, pull that, and then out come these glowing orbs that you can use to like light your way. Yeah. Like he's done that a million times.
We've all done that. Right? Yeah.
Joe: Right. I think in the series, there was a, it was a funny challenge with that where in the pilot, the characters start where they're all kind of familiar with their ecosystem, but eventually everybody kind of goes on this long journey towards the ship. And so things become new to them.
They're just going to have to work with what they got and sort of figure it out as they go.
Dean: Now, I know this is going to be a tough one, but can you pick your favorite environments that you created?
Joe: I really love the stuff in the pilot. I think that Azi's original location with the big, those [00:09:00] column motifs sticking out of the red sand and the idea of like hollow columns and everything was a really exciting thing.
Chris: I thought it was really clever. You know, the escape pods kind of looked like the type of structure that was on the land. So when, you know, certain creatures on the world, on Vesta, that would see these escape pods and make an assumption of like, Oh, well, I guess that's the husk of this other creature. Yeah, it exists on this world.
And I thought that was a super clever, right?
Joe: Yeah. I mean, I mean, I think that there were some ecosystems that felt really good just because there was a lot that you can pull out of it. I mean, it was just about finding the utility in things. And it was like, why I keep going to the Azi bit. The idea is that the inside of these columns are almost kind of the, the way that a bird skeleton is kind of made up where it's kind of hollow and it has these branches or connective tissue inside that you could sort of jump on.
And, and the idea of Azi using [00:10:00] that as a safe haven, but also as a way to traverse up and down. I mean, that kind of stuff to me. I think it's really fun.
Dean: Something I have a big criticism of sci fi in general is it's always like crisis to crisis to crisis to crisis. But in your show, you, you pause several times an episode to like, in silence, watch the beauty of this planet.
So this planet is trying to kill everybody, yet it still is incomparably beautiful. And that, I think it's like, that's the part that gets me the most is, was that a conscious thing to have these humans actually, like, enjoy the planet.
Joe: Yeah, I think so. I think that was a very deliberate move.
Chris: We talked a lot in the beginning.
I mean, whatever, I don't, I don't want to speak for you, but about keeping the pace, like making sure that this did not get influenced by like the current trend of TV to just like bam, bam, bam, like rapid fire and to take your time with these scenes and make it feel like how you'd shoot a more serious [00:11:00] live action production as opposed to animation, which is very, very fast paced these days.
Joe: Yeah, absolutely. And I, and I think that it's kind of like really soaking in the environment more and especially with like American animation in TV in particular, it's this very kind of fast paced thing that for myself, it's, it's just exhausting. And I think that it's nice to sort of sit with something for a bit.
[Sam]: Are you okay?
[Ursula]: That was incredible. I can't believe what I just saw.
[Sam]: Wait, what?
[Ursula]: I don't know. I think we were. talking to each other No, no, wait, that's not quite right. It's hard to explain. I just it was fascinating.
[Sam]: Talking to who Ursula? You're not making any sense.
[Ursula]: If you just go back in there and try to
[Sam]: go back in are you crazy?
We're trying to get out of here in case you forgot There's still a long way to go and we can't be sitting around wasting time
[Ursula]: It [00:12:00] wasn't a waste of time
[Sam]: Look it doesn't make a difference. Can we just move on please?
[Ursula]: Fine.
Dean: Well, and I think that the human characters come across really strongly, too.
There's this, do you think that juxtaposing us with this extreme alien environment, does it make us appreciate humanness even more?
Joe: Oh, I mean, I, I hope that's the takeaway. I really, that was a big thing. I think that was a big theme of the show. I think there was something that was, we were trying to hold onto with this show of seeing these characters suffer through this inner turmoil with this backdrop of nature that is neutral.
It's merciless. It's, it's unforgiving. It's beautiful, but it like doesn't give a s*** about the character. It's point is to survive, to thrive, and these characters are suffering, and some are resisting more than others, and [00:13:00] seeing Kamen I guess I could do spoiler, like there's spoilers.
Dean: Oh, of course you can, go ahead.
Joe: Kamin completely breaking down. I mean, he's in such a fragile state, and he is just losing his mind. To the point that basically this like squirrel has manipulated him and in episode 5 when you see him kind of break down and he says, I'm done. I, I, I can't do this anymore. To me, that was something that felt really powerful.
To just be surrounded by this nature that doesn't really care.
[Kamen]: I can't go find you. I can't, I can't rescue you. You're, you're dead. It's, it's my fault.
Why, why did I run away?
It's too hard. I'm done. Help me. [00:14:00] I can't take the pain.
Dean: Yeah, because every so often, I think, okay, wow, humans are the most adaptable. We are, we can handle any situation, any alien planet, any alien terrain. And then a telepathic squirrel takes you over, and that's it. Or, or a robot that becomes sentient.
And so, yeah, so who is the most adaptable in the show? Or is it the humans? Is it the planet? Is it Levi the robot?
Joe: Right. I mean, I would guess Levi.
[Azi]: Levi, can you come here, please?
[Levi]: No problem.
[Azi]: Why did you bury my wrench?
[Levi]: I'm not sure. I know I've been having some malfunctions lately, but I was just curious what would happen if I did.
[Azi]: Open your maintenance hatch. Ugh. You sure this goo is helping?
[Levi]: Absolutely. This biological material seems to have a complementary composition to my circuitry, which is allowing me to reconnect
[Azi]: Alright, [00:15:00] stop.
Close the hatch and face me, please.
Joe: But I don't know. I mean, I feel like Sam is clearly the one that was resisting the most.
[Sam]: God I hate it here
Joe: and wanting control and that sort of thing. And you're having Ursula and Ozzie experience this kind of flow. Just a rhythm that's happening on this planet that like, if you can go with it and you don't resist it, you have a better chance of surviving and making it out.
[Azi]: What are you doing?
[Levi]: Lighten your grip. Follow the sway of the herd.
Joe: I guess overall, like the idea of the Gaia theory, then this is the idea that planet earth is like one living being and that we're just all kind of made bacteria, making it all up. We're the flora. I think that was kind of a feeling with this planet was that there is the roots and the mycelium and everything that kind of makes up, it's just interconnecting everything, everything is connected in some way.
And that if [00:16:00] you pay attention, you can feel the pulse and realize that there is something else going on.
Dean: Well, and just the the Levi character and her relationship with Ozzy is like grows throughout the series and Man, you you guys messed me up when what happened to the Levi. I mean, I'm not I can't give it away but Good lord, that was dramatic
Joe: Well, it's funny that was kind of a later decision in the writers room was that like if you introduce feeling and In touch and that like Levi is becoming more sentient and you introduce that before all of this happens It just makes the moment all that more unbearable and intense But I I really wanted to make that relationship between those two as strong as possible
[Azi]: Levi what was that?
[Levi]: What was what?
[Azi]: The sounds you just made where did those come from?
[Levi]: I'm, sorry, Azi I don't know why I [00:17:00] sang that
[Azi]: it's okay It's more than okay, actually. I think you might be the first Levi to have written music.
[Levi]: Is that what I did?
[Azi]: I think so, Levi. I think so.
Joe: It was a fun challenge that there were older influences and references for Levi that was basically like the Boston Dynamics bots.
You know, Levi is a utility bot. Their function is to just kind of like help with whatever needs or labor you need. But having this planet slowly permeate Levi was a fun idea that I think came about later.
Chris: I have a question for you, Dean, if we could, can we ask you a question?
Dean: Of course, yeah.
Chris: So. When you look at the stars in the back, like, you know, Charles and everybody on the art team were trying to make stuff beautiful, but are you like, no man, there's no star field that would ever look like that?
Because I always think about that. Like Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about
Chris (as Neil deGrasse Tyson): [00:18:00] that earth is rotating the opposite direction than it should be
Chris: or whatever.
Dean: First off, that is exactly how we talk it's a perfect impression. But that's the thing is like, well, I mean, I'm assuming that it's not earth. We're looking at, we're in another solar system somewhere far away.
So the star field and I totally, yeah. If I see a star field and it doesn't look. Like they CGI'd it. I'm like, yeah, I see that, but your setting is so alien that it's hard for me to critique because I'm like, well, this could be what it's like from there. So you passed a huge test because I am the biggest critic of this stuff and it like, I like, I'm checking out.
Nope. Moon phase wrong. Goodbye. So I had nothing. I have nothing for you guys. It's good.
Joe: Wow. It's funny. I do think there was a feeling of like, there's a lot of that stuff that I just don't even know about. There's a lot of stuff inside the sci fi genre that I feel like I'm just such a novice. I just know nothing about.
So I'd rather like [00:19:00] not think about this as a sci fi or as anything scientifically accurate, but just something that I guess just feels right.
Dean: What did you want listeners to know about the show who maybe haven't seen it yet? Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: Come in cold, I think would be my advice.
Joe: Yeah, yeah.
Chris: Don't try to find out too much about it.
Joe: Yeah, going in not knowing anything might be the best move.
Dean: So big question, is there going to be season two, please?
Joe: TBD. Don't.
Dean: Come on.
Chris: We can't talk about that just yet.
Dean: I mean, if you need another pitch man, you know, that's I could probably come and I'll, I'll, I'll say it with my Neil deGrasse Tyson voice.
Dean (as Neil deGrasse Tyson): So guys, you know, they really get this, like figure it out. That's right. It was very scientifically accurate.
Joe: I will say that it has been so heartwarming and wonderful to see the reception of the show because like most shows these days, it sort of gets buried and streaming and all that stuff. It's hard to promote a show because there's just so [00:20:00] much coming out, but
it has just been awesome. I mean, the reaction to it has been great. And I feel like people that have watched it, it feels meaningful to them, you know, or I don't know. Maybe I'm just reading into it.
Dean: No, it's something special, you know, for the scientifically minded folks, I think they're pretty much universally praising the show.
Hopefully looking for more. Guys, this has been so much fun. Thanks so much for chatting about the show. And yeah, definitely let me know, let me know what I can do to help make season two happen. Cause I want it.
Joe: Sounds good.
Chris: Right on.
Joe: Thanks for having us.
Dean: So I thought that was really interesting. What Joe and Chris were talking about is that they drew a lot of this inspiration for their show from nature documentaries. I just was thinking it's going to be all from space stuff. Like they're watching NASA feeds and Mars and Beyond and all that kind of stuff.
And so it got me thinking a little bit more about aliens [00:21:00] again, because the more I think about them, the more I'm like really getting steered away from that common notion of them, you know, like the four foot tall, gray, skinny, big eyed, traveling around flying saucers kind of aliens, way too human, man.
They're way too human. When you think about all the other possible worlds and all the other possible life forms. I don't know. So I started down this train of thought, cause I'm getting inspired by these guys in this show about astronauts. You gotta be to fly through space. There's the logistics. You have to have enough space to live in.
You have to have a place to sleep. You have to be able to go to the bathroom. You have to eat all that kind of stuff. And it got me thinking, I was like, you know, it would be better is if astronauts were smaller. I mean, think about this. Take up less space, eat less. Poop less. Maybe. Alien would be better. It didn't even need a spacecraft.
Maybe it didn't even need to eat. Or poop. That'd probably be better, actually. Maybe, it could be like a spore. You know, something that could stay dormant for [00:22:00] eons, and arrive on a world, and then propagate. All I'm saying is, if aliens are currently among us, chances are, They're teeny tiny, maybe even microscopic, and we'll never even know it.
So, your homework. Write to us with your thoughts on alien life, how we'll make contact, and if we'd ever even recognize life if we saw it. Share with us at lookingup@wvxu.org. We'd love to hear from you.
Looking up with Dean Regas is a production of Cincinnati Public Radio. Kevin Reynolds and I created the show. Ella Rowen is our show producer, editor, and would totally volunteer for a round trip to Mars. Right, Ella? Yeah. Marshall Verbsky assists with audio production, editing, and would totally do a one way trip to Mars.
Come on! I mean, why not just [00:23:00] stay? It's, you know, it's pretty far. Might as well just live it out. Jenell Walton is our Vice President of Content. Ronnie Salerno is our Digital Platforms Manager. And Brittany Mayti is our Social Media Coordinator. Our theme song is Possible Light by Ziv Moran. And our cover art is by Nicole Chance.
I'm your host, Dean Regas. Keep looking up!
