Dean chats with Stephen Hummel, Dark Skies Initiative coordinator at the University of Texas at Austin and at the McDonald Observatory. Listen in to learn how you can support dark sky preservation from home, no matter where you live.
Send us your thoughts at lookingup@wvxu.org or post them on social media using #lookinguppodcast
Additional resources referenced in this episode:
- Why No One Can See the Stars Anymore (PBS)
- Outdoor lighting at night doesn’t do what you think it does to reduce crime and increase safety (DarkSky International)
- McDonald Observatory
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Looking Up is transcribed using a combination of AI speech recognition and human editors. It may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
Dean Regas: I have always loved the dark. You know, like when I was a kid, there were some warm nights where I'd just sit outside, lie down in the grass of the neighbor's yard and just watch the stars. I didn't know the names of any of the stars or constellations, and I definitely didn't have a telescope. This was like 10, 15 years before I started doing astronomy, but yet it was one of my best childhood memories.
Are kids today losing this experience? Or maybe you missed it too, and is it gone forever or can we get a dark sky full of stars back? From the studios of Cincinnati Public Radio, I'm your host, Dean Regas, and this is Looking Up, the show that takes you deep into the cosmos or just to the telescope in your backyard to learn more about what makes this amazing universe of ours so great.
My guest today is Stephen Hummel, Dark Skies Initiative coordinator at the University of Texas at Austin and at the McDonald Observatory. I think a lot of people, probably people of all ages who went outside as kids, probably can recall memories of how the sky used to be a lot darker.
[William Wren, McDonald Observatory]: The places where you can go to see a naturally dark starry sky are.
Vanishing, they're shrinking, they're becoming fewer and farther between. You have to travel great distances from major cities in order to be able to see a naturally dark sky.
Dean Regas: As cities in small towns grow larger and larger, more lights turn on, and the more light that shines up, the less starlight shines down.
Now, there's no doubt that a lot of people are scared of the dark, and this points towards a misconception that more lights equals more safety at night. I mean, it seems reasonable, but studies do not back that up. In fact, the more light, the more shadows and the more security is actually impaired.
[Dark Sky International]: It's not a very good situation for safety because the bad guys know the human eye can't penetrate the hard shadows.
So that's where you hide and set up an ambush. And of course, the best thing is the psychology next to a light. People think they're safe, so they're gonna have their guard down. It's a dangerous situation.
Dean Regas: I kind of have an odd personal experience with this. Not many know this, but I was before becoming an astronomer.
A sort of nighttime security guard it. It was for a school in Cincinnati, and I did the rounds once a night. At first, you know, it was kind of a little scary to go through the buildings and grounds at night, and I always turned on as many lights as possible, but I soon realized that it was way better for my senses to let my eyes adjust and keep things dark.
I could see things so much better. Now, there were only a few times where I had to like distantly confront people and I used the darkness to my advantage quite a bit. I could see them, but they couldn't see me. So, when people were, you know, like places they weren't supposed to be, I would yell out, “Hey, what are you doing? Get outta here right now!”
Now, you know, I'm not really an imposing physical presence, but my voice woo. At every time. I mean, every time the other people would yell, oh, shoot. Well, you know, they'd like use curse words instead of shoot, and then they'd quickly leave the property every time. Darkness was my superpower.
I. Now, I'm not quite sure if my guest today thinks his superpower, is darkness. But I met Steven Hummel this year when I was out in Arizona and he was a fellow Grand Canyon Astronomer residence, and I'm so excited to talk about Dark Skies with him.
Stephen Hummel: Hi, I'm, I'm Steven Hummel. I am the Dark Skies Initiative Coordinator for McDonald Observatory.
We're a research campus of UT out in far West Texas, and my job is to help preserve dark skies surrounding the observatory for the sake of research, outreach, and benefits to nature. Well, Steven, thanks so much for joining me today. Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
Dean Regas: Well, with your field of study, I think you found that light pollution is becoming an increasing problem.
And so, is the current state of our dark skies in the United States?
Stephen Hummel: Yeah, absolutely. It’s a growing issue, so between 2011 and 2022, light pollution grew at an average rate of 10% per year in North America, it doesn't sound like a lot, but. That's actually really fast, getting 10% worse every year, means that it actually doubled in eight years.
Um, and it means that most people today, when they look up, they could no longer see the Milky Way. That's the majority of Americans. Over 80% of Americans, and most children especially live in a place where they, they can't see the Milky Way. And really entire generations are now growing up without having access to the night sky and not really even knowing what the true night sky looks like, what it's even supposed to look like without light pollution.
So unfortunately, we're losing the night sky at a, at a fairly rapid pace, and even far from cities, we're feeling its effects.
Dean Regas: So, what, what are we losing by losing the dark skies? Does it affect animals and how does it affect humans?
Stephen Hummel: Yeah. So obviously it's an issue for, for stargazers, right? For astronomers, but for, for us as humans, I think there's a cultural loss since all of.
Human history essentially, since we've had history written down, people have told stories about the night sky and really only in the last a hundred years has humanity kind of moved away from that. And I don't think that's necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, but it is something we're, we're kind of losing touch with.
So, there's kind of a cultural cost to it. There's also a much more human cost in terms of our health. Too much artificial light at night can cause sleep disorders. It also has been linked to things like certain cardiovascular diseases, increased risk of heart disease, diabetes, certain kinds of cancer.
It’s not so much that it's gonna directly give you cancer, but it may impact your circadian rhythm, which is tied into, , many other aspects of your, your bodily functions. So, it can have kind of cascading effects and increased risks of all sorts of diseases far beyond what you might expect. That affects us.
Then, of course, it affects wildlife too, we have the opportunity to close the blinds, you know, shut the doors, you know, and make our spaces where we sleep dark wildlife doesn't necessarily have that option. So, it can impact everything from bird migration, reproduction, and it can have impacts on things like coral reefs, underwater, even aquatic systems can be impacted by light pollution.
I mean, really just now learning about the scale of the impacts, this is all fairly recent science in the last 10 years or so. As our world gets brighter, we're realizing the price. We're paying for, for all of that light, aside from just the impacts on us.
Dean Regas: Well, I think it's surprising to a lot of people how, how bright the sky is around even remote places like Carlsbad Caverns.
But of course, you just finished a stint at another pretty remote place, a dark sky site called the Grand Canyon, where you're the astronomer residents out there, and you did a study. What were you looking for and what did you find?
Stephen Hummel: Absolutely. I was very honored to serve as the Grand Canyon Astronomer residence.
And yeah, so I used a method that the National Park Service actually developed to study light pollution, where we set up a camera system and it kind of takes images all across the sky. Basically a 360 image of the entire night sky. A spot and you know it, it takes about an hour or two to collect data.
And I did this for five different locations within the park, and I was actually repeating a study that the National Park Service did in 2015. So, they took measurements there with the same equipment I was using, essentially, and I just basically repeated it just to see. How has it changed in a decade?
Right? We know nationwide how it's changed. We know a little bit from satellite information, but really measuring it from the ground as you really see it is a different matter. And then what we found was that the night sky is still very dark, but unfortunately the light pollution sources have grown considerably surrounding Grand Canyon.
In fact, the amount of light pollution we see now is about double what it was in 2015. It's still dark, right? You can still go to the Grand Canyon and have an amazing experience, but it's starting to creep in. But one thing that we did also find was that Flagstaff, Arizona, which is the first dark sky community to be certified in the world, they've been practicing everything I've been talking about for a long time, using good lighting practices since the seventies.
It was actually a very minor source, despite being pretty close to the city of the Grand Canyon and, and fairly large. If they hadn't done those practices, it's very likely that Flagstaff would be the brightest source of light pollution from Grand Canyon. But instead, it's like the 11th or 12th, it's way down the list.
It's barely noticeable to the naked eye at all. So, although, yeah, it's gotten worse, it's also a sun that hate. We can fix this, right? There are solutions out there that are demonstrated to be working and its really testament to the city of Flagstaff. All their efforts are, are paying off.
Dean Regas: Let's put aside the dark sky element of the Grand Canyon, and for a moment to look back at your experiences there, what was the thing that surprised you most about living and working in such a beautiful park like Grand Canyon?
Stephen Hummel: Yeah, it was a, it was an amazing experience, I think, to really fully grasp. To go to the Grand Canyon, you need to see it multiple times of the day, you know, sunrise, middle of the day, sunset, and then at night in the moonlight. It's amazing, I love seeing the water at the river below illuminated by the moon on a good, you know, full moon night.
It was really incredible. If you're really into astronomy, you kind of know the full moon is sort of like the, the last pick time to see the sky, right? It’s because it's bright. But I actually enjoyed those nights the most just because of how it illuminated the landscape. But I also really enjoyed just.
The amount of people that I was able to speak with and, and all the different places that came from, you know, people from all over the world were coming to the Grand Canyon and being able to chat with them about the nice guy was a really, a really cool experience as well. I really enjoyed that.
Dean Regas: Well, and of course you work at a pretty dark place too in Texas at the McDonald Observatory.
What's that like there for a visitor?
Stephen Hummel: So, I'm very fortunate that, yeah, I live under a dark sky myself. I'm unlike most Americans today. But, yeah, it's an incredible facility and we do public programs, so we do, stargazing activities, but we're somewhat unique in that we actually do let you come up here at night, see the sky and look through the telescopes at experience, you know, the same thing that we're experiencing, and so, it's an incredible experience for a lot of people.
I came to McDonald Observatory as a kid when I was maybe seven or eight years old, and now I work here. Right. And that, that experience stayed with me my, my whole life. It was what inspired me to get into astronomy and, I hope other people get to have that experience either here at, at McDonald or places like Grand Canyon or wherever the, they may find a dark sky.
Dean Regas: Well, this has been great talking with you, Steven, learning a little bit more about your experiences at McDonald Observatory in Texas and also the Grand Canyon. I can't wait to get back out to some dark skies again. So, thanks so much for talking to us.
Stephen Hummel: Thank you so much for having me, Dean. It's been a pleasure.
Dean Regas: Now, light pollution is definitely one of those issues that seems just too large for any individual action, but don't completely despair. You can do a lot. First step, I recommend getting more informed about the issue and connect with Dark Sky International. This is like the ultimate experts and advocates in this field.
And you go to their website, darksky.org and learn more about things you can do, success stories and ways you can make friends and influence people about the cause. And with summer, right around the corner. I have one other suggestion. Seek darkness.
[Star Party Audio]: Well, good evening, everybody. Good evening, is everybody excited to be here?
Dean Regas: Make it like a part of your summer vacation to visit dark places like the national parks and truly experience what it's like. Mostly
[Star Party Audio]: the reason why I come out here is because I live in a city and how many stars can I see in a city?
Dean Regas: Not, not very many. Most national parks have nighttime programs where a ranger can guide a stargazer like yourself and sometimes even use a telescope with you.
[Star Party Audio]: This thing that's going over the sky here, I don't, no idea what this milky, cloudy way thing is that's up there, and I'm very excited to be here. So, I can see the Milky Way and lots of other stars that are out there.
Dean Regas: And some parks like the Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon and the Badlands have dedicated star parties where amateur astronomers set up telescopes specifically for the public to view.
[Star Party Audio]: Are you excited to be here for night two of the Star Party? Yeah. Yeah. Woo. Very good.
Dean Regas: I mean, it's a great chance to experience a dark sky with others. Soak up the Milky Way. And heck, I'll be there at the Grand Canyon Star Party, June 21st through 25th, and the Badlands on July 18th and 19th. So come on out.
Meet me under a dark sky. It'll be out of this world. Looking up what Dean Regas is a production of Cincinnati Public Radio. Kevin Reynolds and I created the podcast in 2017. Ella Rowen produces and edits our show and tells me I'm always in the dark. Which I always assumed was a compliment, right?
Jenell Walton is our Vice President of Content, and Ronny Salerno is our digital platforms manager. Our theme song is Possible Light by Ziv Moran. Our social media coordinator is Hannah McFarland, and our cover art is by Nicole Tiffany. I'm Dean Regas, keep looking up!
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