Dean chats with astronomer and artist Dr. Tyler Nordgren. Listen in to hear about how Dr. Nordgren revived the style of vintage WPA posters to raise awareness for night sky preservation in national parks!
"Dr. Tyler Nordgren is a professional astronomer and artist. He holds a Ph.D. in Astronomy from Cornell University where he did work on dark matter as well as a B.A. in Physics from Reed College. For over a decade he has worked with the National Park Service to turn the national parks into the single largest source for public science and astronomy education in the world."
What are your fave works of art with an astronomy theme? Dean wants to hear from you! Send us your thoughts at lookingup@wvxu.org or post them on social media using #lookinguppodcast
Additional resources referenced in this episode:
- Check out Dr. Tyler Nordgren's Posters
- Work Pays America by U.S. Work Projects Administration
- Mayo (Virtual) Dark Sky Festival 2020
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Looking Up is transcribed using a combination of AI speech recognition and human editors. It may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print.
Dean Regas: So you might not be able to travel to another planet quite yet. Becoming an astronaut is one of the hardest, most selective jobs on Earth, and heck, Even if you do fly up to the space station, you might get stuck there for a while. But for those that can't travel among the stars, you know, like me for instance, NASA and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory created travel style posters of different worlds.
[Archival Audio]: NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory created three exoplanet travel bureau posters, echoing the iconic WPA travel posters from the 1930s.
Dean Regas: But NASA, they took this idea to the extreme. It's like a distant future when you may be able to travel in the solar system. They envision people sailing the methane seas of Titan, floating above the geysers of Enceladus, and beholding a double sunset on an exoplanet called Kepler 16b.
Okay, if it's a travel poster they obviously need a better catchier name for that planet. I'll get to work on that. From the studios of Cincinnati Public Radio, I'm your host, Dean Regas, and this is Looking Up, a show that takes you deep into the cosmos or just to the telescope in your backyard to learn more about what makes this amazing universe of ours so great.
My guest today is Tyler Nordgren. an astronomer, night sky ambassador, and an out of this world artist.
If you've visited a national park lately, you've probably seen Tyler's work. He creates these posters to highlight both the natural beauty of the parks, as well as the wonder of the night sky. His series, See the Milky Way, is the one you probably have seen the most. He also made a series of posters to advertise different cities and towns on the path of the total solar eclipse back in April.
So, Tyler's work and the NASA JPL posters are these, like, throwbacks to those travel posters from the early 1900s.
[Dr. Tyler Nordgren, Archival Audio]: It's something that's modeled after that same governmental program by the, the Roosevelt administration in the 1930s during the, the Great Depression, this see America campaign to get people to go out to those parks.
Dean Regas: You know, the ones showing people dressed nicely with gorgeous mountain backdrops or seaside resorts.
[Archival Audio]: Painters too contribute their bit to making the works program a real and permanent accomplishment. These reproductions of the American scene of today will make this one of the most fertile period.
Dean Regas: These posters are a fun look back and ahead. I got, like, all of them behind me. Well, Tyler, thanks so much for joining me today.
Dr. Tyler Nordgren: Oh, it's my pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.
Dean Regas: So we got astronomy, nature, and art. How did you get started in this unique blending of disciplines?
Dr. Tyler Nordgren: You know, it's, it's, it's hard to look back and tell somebody how to go about getting the job that I currently have.
I'm a PhD astronomer, but I've always loved the outdoors. I grew up in Oregon and Alaska, and so around every bend up there in Alaska, it was like a national park. And I've always had an interest in art as well, both drawing and photography and astrophotography. So it just all managed to be one of these things that I.
Took decades, but I finally found a way I could put all these together.
Dean Regas: And what was your specialty as an astronomer? Uh, and more importantly, why in the world would you ever leave the job of being an astronomer?
Dr. Tyler Nordgren: So my PhD is in dark matter. I studied the interactions of galaxies and I was traveling around the world, going to radio observatories and optical observatories.
And you know, I realized I was one of those few astronomers that I'd be out there at a telescope and would make a point of going out knowing that, oh yeah, my galaxies, they're right there in the square of Pegasus or, oh gosh, yeah, right off of that star there in Cygnus. Uh, that's something I'm interested in.
So clue that really I was just a highly overeducated amateur astronomer in a lot of ways, but I eventually became a, uh, an astrophysicist. Tenured full professor And, you know, I, I realized that one of the things I really loved doing was just being out in nature, say at someplace like Grand Canyon and standing there on the rim, talking to visitors about what they can actually see for themselves with their, with eyes, rather than being in a classroom, grading papers, I really wanted to be out there connecting with the public.
Dean Regas: And so then what was your first big break in the art world when you knew like, okay, I can be an artist. This is cool.
Dr. Tyler Nordgren: My, my very first book, Stars Above, Earth Below, A Guide to Astronomy in the National Parks, was something I, I created by spending an entire year on sabbatical in the National Parks.
It was like something, 14 parks in 14 months. And it was all about the different ways that people could experience astronomy, astrophysics, planetary science, when they're out there. in, in the national parks. And part of what I wanted for that book kind of had Carl Sagan's Cosmos in mind from my childhood.
I wanted there to be lots of artwork, both photographs. So I spent every clear night photographing the sky above the national parks. But I also wanted more quirky things like, like artwork and drawing and paintings. And when you're out there in the national parks, one of the things that you see in the visitor centers is those old works progress administration posters from the 1930s about see America.
[Archival Audio]: The sensitive fingers of artists are poorly suited to manual labor. And in finding suitable work for musicians and other artists, the WPA has contributed greatly to the culture of America.
Dr. Tyler Nordgren: And I thought, well, you know, that's so associated with the national parks. Let me just modify that. I'll use my artistic background that I haven't used in decades, and I'll redraw that poster.
And instead of see America, it was see the Milky Way. And I came up with this, this tagline that half the park is after dark. And that was just a single illustration in the book, nothing more. But when it came out, park rangers loved it. All of the rangers I've worked with, they asked me, Hey, can I use that, that poster for my night sky program?
I said, sure. And then I started getting requests from the bookstores asking, Hey, visitors have asked about this. Can we sell it? Sure, let's do it. And then eventually rangers I'd never met before said, Oh, I'm, I'm out at Joshua tree. Could I use this, but you know, could, could you modify it and put a Joshua tree in or, or arches?
Yeah. Can you have an arch or black cane of the Gunnison? And pretty soon I was drawing these posters for parks all over the country and selling them. And eventually I got to a point where I think my faculty job was paying the taxes on my, my art job. And that's kind of about the point at which I thought.
Maybe I don't ever have to go to another faculty meeting again.
Dean Regas: So what's your artistic process? How do you create these posters from start to finish? And how long does it take to make one?
Dr. Tyler Nordgren: You know, for those, those Milky Way National Park posters, I travel, I love the parks. And so when I'm out there, uh, hiking through Grand Canyon or Utah, I take a drawing pad along with me and make sketches.
But I also try to be realistic about it. It's like, okay, where's the Milky Way going to be rising? What are the views that you're going to have? And where are the people going to be? I don't want to promote something that you've got to do a, a two day hike to get out to, because the, the vast majority of people traveling to the national parks.
aren't going to be able to do that. And that is the thing that's special about the parks. For the vast majority of people, it is the easiest, most family friendly place to be able to go and see a pristine sky. So I try to look at, you know, the overlooks. Where are people going to be? I make the sketches.
And then I've got this giant, uh, electronic drawing tablet at home that I sit down and do all the sketches, do the final sketches on there and the coloring. But, you know, one of the things I try to do is, I love those, those 1930s posters. I love the look, those lithograph looks with only like, say, six colors.
But I also love it because those posters were used during the, the depression, uh, in order to help educate and inform the public. And I feel that that's what I'm doing today. So I'm sort of partnering my message, my style with this historic message that is associated with the parks. but also associated with educating and informing the public into something that otherwise they might not take the time to stop and see for themselves.
Dean Regas: Well, and speaking of the Grand Canyon, you're also a former astronomer residence like myself, and you get to live, work, and be inspired by the park. I don't know about you, but I got to These experiences sometimes about that night sky that some of the people, the visitors were more impressed by the night sky than the canyon itself.
So they'd be looking through telescopes and they say, this is the best part of my trip when the canyons right, you know, 10 feet behind me. I'm like, what did you see that canyon? You know what I mean? Is that, I mean, is that something that you found too, is that the night sky can rival any national park, you know, Vista.
Dr. Tyler Nordgren: It really can. And part of it is depending on how much the people may have traveled, there are canyons and buttes and mountains and glaciers. You see these all over social media, tick tock. If you travel around, you, you, you see them by day, you spend hours driving through these in. Not everyone takes the time to stop and look at the sky.
Maybe it's cloudy. Maybe somebody happens to be out at full moon or or maybe as the national parks have put televisions in the lodges and you now have internet so that you can stream movies in your tent. People don't think about going outside, finding a dark place and letting their eyes adjust. And so again, that was one of those messages that I was trying to get at with those posters and the half the park is after dark campaign was to get people to turn off the lights, turn off the TV, put the phone down and go out and experience what they can see.
With a pristine sky, no moon, and a Milky Way overhead in summertime. And that comes as a complete shock to so many people that it's just there to be seen. You don't need a telescope to see the Milky Way. You don't need somebody to point it out as a faint, fuzzy thing. When you're in Grand Canyon, It's dramatic and it stretches from horizon to horizon and goes high overhead.
Dean Regas: Well, and here we are in, uh, 2024 and this became a pretty popular time for you because of your Eclipse poster series. How is that making Eclipse posters for pretty much everybody on Totality Path in April? And, and how about the Eclipse itself? How'd it treat you?
Dr. Tyler Nordgren: Yeah, it's, it's pretty good. Been a joy working with, with these communities, state parks, national parks, towns between 2017 and 2024.
I feel like I was the traveling salesman out there saying, hey, here's what's coming towards your town. How would you like to have me draw something for you that you can use to, to, to promote? Your place is the center or standing in the shadow of the moon I I think I did something like over 50 posters for the 2024 eclipse I've lost count.
It's somewhere in the 60s or 70s. I feel like I was doing nothing but drawing constantly A lot of my effort was here towards central and western New York, where I live now, because for the first time in my life, we were getting totality coming to me. I didn't have to travel somewhere. And this part of New York state is a part that a lot of folks aren't aware of.
You hear New York and you think New York City. So this was a chance to really promote places like Buffalo and Rochester, the Erie Canal, all these amazing places that we're going to get to see totality.
Dean Regas: Well, since we got a while to wait for another eclipse in the U. S., I've been really kind of revving up for this Europa Clipper mission that's scheduled to launch this year.
This is the mission out to the moon of Jupiter. And I saw your poster for it, which is so cool. Is, is that the mission that's really grabbing your imagination right now, or is there another mission on the horizon for you?
Dr. Tyler Nordgren: No, Europa Clipper is, is the one, and part of the reason for that is my wife is on the science team for it.
She first joined back in 2014. I've known Bob Pappalardo, who's the, the, the, the lead investigator for this for, for years before. So it's like my wife and friends have all been on the team. We have all been working towards this for decades, and in fact, I was asked to go and lead a trip to Easter Island to see an annular eclipse this September, October, and I had to say no, no, no, this is my wife's mission.
We are driving down to Florida, we are going to be there at Cape Canaveral, and we are watching this because this does not come around for a family every year. This is my wife's big, big moment, and she's done a lot of traveling for me. And so this is my opportunity to be there for her and to see that Falcon Heavy with that spacecraft take off is, uh, just going to be another awe inspiring moment in my life.
Dean Regas: Well, Tyler, it's been a lot of fun chatting about astronomy, art, and, uh, man, I can't wait for that Europa mission either. Um, thanks so much for joining me today.
Dr. Tyler Nordgren: Oh, it has been a real pleasure.
Dean Regas: Well, so now I got my imagination going. I, I want to hitch a ride on that Europa Clipper mission going out to Jupiter.
I think that is going to be cool. The really cool thing to see. Now, of course, when he launches, it's still going to be years before it actually gets to Jupiter. So I'll have to remind myself about it. Whenever I think about like really traveling in the solar system, there is one place that I always go to in my brain and that is Saturn and it's because of those rings, those rings are just so cool, it gets my imagination going.
So I wanted to share with you a. A little thought that I had back when I was in third grade. This is, this is kind of embarrassing. And so when I saw those first pictures of Saturn that came from either the telescopes based on Earth or some of the missions that flew out there, I got really inspired. I saw those rings and I thought one thing.
And so I went to my teacher and I said, uh, teacher, One of these days, when I grow up, I'm gonna fly to the rings of Saturn and I'm gonna ride my bike around those rings. And, oh, she didn't laugh one bit at all at that. I'm laughing in my head. But she was like, oh, Dean, I know you will one of these days.
You're gonna do that. And yeah, there's just something about those rings. It just got my attention and my nine year old self is what do you do? You ride your bike around and that's what you do. That's what makes a lot of sense. Never mind that you can't do that because they're not like solid like a road.
They're like individual bits of ice and dust that circle around the planet, but can I still dream? And so I need a travel poster. Ride your bike around the rings of Saturn with Dean. I think that would be so cool. So go ahead fans of the show send it to us. I want to see it. This is what I was wondering is what are your favorite works of art that have an astronomical theme?
You know paintings, sculptures, architectural wonders. TikTok influencers, whatever. Let us know what art inspires you to reach for the sky. Share your astro art pics with us at lookingup@wvxu.org or leave a comment on our Facebook or Twitter page with the hashtag #LookingUpPodcast.
Looking Up with Dean Regas is a production of Cincinnati Public Radio. Kevin Reynolds and I created the podcast in 2017. Ella Rowen and Marshall Verbsky produce and edit our show, and both dream of skydiving off the cliffs of Miranda. That's a moon of Uranus, by the way. Jenell Walton is our Vice President of Content, and Ronny Salerno is our Digital Platforms Manager. Our theme song is “Possible Light” by Ziv Moran, and our cover art is by Nicole Tiffany. I'm Dean Regas. Keep looking up!
Music this episode: "SG Transmission," Line Exchange," "Tannis Corner Stall," and "TK Shell," from Blue Dot Sessions VIA the Free Music Archive (CC by NC) as well as "Zion" by SalmonLikeTheFish via the Free Music Archive (CC by NC-SA).
